I'm a bit out of the loop, so I am just now finding out about the wingnuts' answer to the Dia Sin Imigrantes yesterday.
- You have a way to answer the illegal aliens in a counter-protest on Monday. My friend, Dan Stein, of Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has an excellent idea: Meatless Monday...
...On Monday, Tyson and other meat-packers (Seaboard, Cargill, Hormel, etc.) are giving their alien employees the day off to protest necessary immigration reform. They want to show us what a day without the "services" of illegal aliens would be like. Let's show them what a day without the customer base of law abiding U.S. citizens would be like. DON'T BUY OR EAT MEAT ON MONDAY! Adds Dan Stein:
I guess their hatred of immigrants is surpassed by their hatred of breaking a nail.
Never fear, wingnuts, because I've got a better idea. I'm calling it, "Steal A Job From A Mexican" Day. How it works is, you clean your own goddam pool. You take out your own garbage. You get a job at a meat packing plant, or a textile factory, or an orchard. You accept a minimum wage paycheck in exchange for hours of thankless manual labor.
See, these are the jobs you claim the brown people are stealing from us, and I think it's high time you brave conservative commandos go steal them back.
8 Comments:
Only the most extreme conservatives -- those who are generally considered nutty by the rest -- are universally opposed to immigration. Most conservatives are opposed to illegal immigration. Europe's experiments with amnesty for illegal immigrants shows -- like any economics-minded analysis would -- that amnesty encourages and increases rather than discourages or decreases illegal immigration. Should habitual speeders get amnesty because they've been speeding every day for the past five years? Should spouse abusers get amnesty after ten reports of spouse abuse because by then it is clear that they will not stop? If not, what is so different about immigration law that violating it should be rewarded?
If they were "brave conservative commandos", they would have been in Iraq years ago. Although it is funny to see them accidently embrace vegetarianism, if only for one night.
Michael,
I'm sympathetic to your view, but what are you planning on doing with them? Round them all up and send them back? Keep them as permanent illegals? What does economics-minded analysis predict as the outcome for those, or do you have another plan?
It was particularly dumb when you remember that a number of meatpacking plants shut down for the day because so many of their employees were going to be at the protests.
My suggestion would be to provide economic disincentives for companies to employ illegal immigrants, and use market forces to discourage immigrants.
I don't think employing illegals needs to be criminalized -- our criminal code is already too large -- but I have seen, and like, the suggestion of disallowing tax writeoffs for the salaries of illegal immigrants (companies can write off most salaries as business expenses). If that does not significantly reduce the job market for illegal immigrant labor, apply a positive tax to illegal immigrants' salaries on the company side.
It also seems reasonable to not automatically give US citizenship to children who are born in the US to parents who are both illegal immigrants, but that would require a constitutional amendment due to the wording of the 14th Amendment.
Immigration law could be enforced more rigorously; a little digging turns up many examples where undocumented immigrants are arrested (on immigration charges or some other), given a summons, released to their own custody, and then disappear.
As you suggest, any effort to deport most or all illegal immigrants just for being illegal immigrants is likely to be uneconomical. It would probably also intrude significantly on civil liberties for everyone else. The more effective way to slow or reverse illegal immigration is to remove the incentives that drew them here.
==I don't think employing illegals needs to be criminalized -- our criminal code is already too large -- but I have seen, and like, the suggestion of disallowing tax writeoffs for the salaries of illegal immigrants (companies can write off most salaries as business expenses). If that does not significantly reduce the job market for illegal immigrant labor, apply a positive tax to illegal immigrants' salaries on the company side.==
Interesting. If nothing else that would give poor Americans and legal immigrants an advantage in competing with illegals for shit jobs. I'll admit I don't understand how illegal immigrants pay income taxes as we're told they do. I know that many migrant farmhands don't exist on paper.
==It also seems reasonable to not automatically give US citizenship to children who are born in the US to parents who are both illegal immigrants, but that would require a constitutional amendment due to the wording of the 14th Amendment.==
I don't like that. Seems unamerican to me. I don't want a permanent caste of noncitizens.
==Immigration law could be enforced more rigorously; a little digging turns up many examples where undocumented immigrants are arrested (on immigration charges or some other), given a summons, released to their own custody, and then disappear.==
Politicians are always talking about that and it's highly popular, so I suspect actually doing it would be a lot harder than it seems. I know cops are very opposed to aiding the INS (or whatever it's called now) because they depend on the cooperation of illegal immigrants just like everyone else to report crimes.
==As you suggest, any effort to deport most or all illegal immigrants just for being illegal immigrants is likely to be uneconomical. It would probably also intrude significantly on civil liberties for everyone else. The more effective way to slow or reverse illegal immigration is to remove the incentives that drew them here.==
The problem is that many illegal immigrants are fleeing such desperate situations (extreme poverty, persecution or violence) that they're willing to spend whatever money they have and risk death just to get here. What realistic disincentives can we add to that?
Add to the last para: Also, even if we cut off the flow, what do you propose for those already here?
==I don't like that. Seems unamerican to me. I don't want a permanent caste of noncitizens.==
They have the same options to become citizens that any other non-citizen have: going through the legal processes. To be clear, I would only apply that to illegal immigrants, not to permanent residents or visitors on short-term visas.
==What realistic disincentives can we add to that? Also, even if we cut off the flow, what do you propose for those already here?==
They must come to the US for more reasons than being oppressed in their place of origin -- otherwise, why pick the US rather than a non-US neighboring state or country? There is a strong market for labor here, and illegal immigrants represent supply. If we use mechanisms to reduce demand for their labor from employers, the numbers of illegal immigrant employees should drop. As the market shrinks, I suspect some or many will move back home.
====I don't like that. Seems unamerican to me. I don't want a permanent caste of noncitizens.==
They have the same options to become citizens that any other non-citizen have: going through the legal processes. To be clear, I would only apply that to illegal immigrants, not to permanent residents or visitors on short-term visas.==
Still leaves you with generations of people being born here without rights. If my folks came as illegals and I was born here, am I an illegal immigrant with no nationality at all? Are my kids? Is a child going to admit to being an illegal noncitizen despite having no nonAmerican identity, and come forward and beg to be naturalized, bringing INS down on their family?
==They must come to the US for more reasons than being oppressed in their place of origin -- otherwise, why pick the US rather than a non-US neighboring state or country? There is a strong market for labor here, and illegal immigrants represent supply. If we use mechanisms to reduce demand for their labor from employers, the numbers of illegal immigrant employees should drop. As the market shrinks, I suspect some or many will move back home.==
Because poverty and abuse are also endemic to the other bordering nations. Give them transit to Canada or UK and I'm sure not many would insist on the US, but the cost and danger of crossing the border makes it hard for me to believe they make the choice lightly and that there are therefore a lot we can do to make it less attractive.
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